Rune Central

Then it's funny how I remember the e-mails you were talking about.



You mean to tell me that the time you were an admin at Dead Zone you couldn't tell if any of the admins were using cheats? A level of privacy that high leads me to believe that you would know.

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Slot Zero

So, what have we learned so far.

We know that both Ben and Painkiller worked on the same code together. We know that Ben made regular updates to the code, probably more than Painkiller at one time. We know that out of the blue, Ben decided to open up the source code that he used to work on with Painkiller, and take out a portion that implicates Painkiller was cheating on his own server. We also know that Ben, Diazoild, and perhaps a few others were so close that they had a "tier 2" level of privacy and talked about everything under the sun.

If Painkiller was cheating, it stands to reason that the others knew and perhaps were cheating as well.

So, let's clear the air. You guys were as close to Painkiller than anyone else. Was he cheating? Did you know about it. Why are you waiting until now to say something?

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Slot Zero

If you want to revisit that issue, take a look at this thread. It was posted 7 months ago. We didn't wait until now. You just may not have seen the posts.


http://pub76.ezboard.com/fdzsplayhousefrm18.showMessage?topicID=4.topic

>>You 2 should take a hint from IEEE, seriously.

If you mean by me being silent then I'm about to blow it

I just have a few things I want to say just to show where I stand in all this:

Just to protect myself in the future, my code has something called BETA_MODE which will give you all the weapons and ammo. This is JUST for testing stuff, it is not a cheat and when it's enabled it applies to EVERYONE at the server.

Now, why did I just say that? Because it is easy to alter the code to make it look like it's really something else. "How can you say that? I thought you were on Ben's side!" As Dole always said I stand on the fence all the time, never on one side or the other. Painkiller and I share the same interests, making new runes and trying new stuff. Ben does the thing I can't do and don't want to do cause I suck at it horribly, running a server and helping me a ton with the code. I hold both of them at equal eye level, but I do have my share of disagreements with both of them, which is normal. I treat this situation without considering who they are in relation to me. Think of it as mentally renaming them to someone else "Bob vs Joe".

Joe says Bob is a cheating admin. Joe offers proof. Joe's proof is in text form and could be simply fabricated. Bob doesn't seem to say it's a fabrication. Joe was also a former admin of Bob's. Bob had outted Joe and company from being admins. Joe has motive. Joe looks like he's trying to make Bob look bad. Joe has nothing to gain but the satisfaction of making Bob look bad, ie. Revenge. Joe tries to get Bill to agree. Bill seems interested, but Bill learns of the history between Joe and Bob and reacts in the proper manner.

So did Bob really use cheats? Or did Joe just make this up to make Bob look bad? If Joe knew Bob cheated why didn't Joe say anything before? Is Jim the mastermind behind this all? Is Bob's evil twin still alive?

Find out in tomorrow's episode of "As the Quad Turns"...


So you can see, I must be viewed as a t-total jerk sometimes for not sticking up for my friends, but in this world we're all held to our own actions and reactions. I'm not letting one person's actions reflect on my own when I disagree with those actions. This applies to everyone for me.

PK, yes I said some things the day before this happened, but they were totally unrelated. And I hope what I said has no connection to these events. Please don't think of it as some plot that I was part of. It was my own indepentant plot to show how displeased I am to the outcome of the offical Rune Quake Map Pack, aka the Map Project

Slot Zero:
"This has nothing to do with source code or the development of Rune Quake. This is an attempt to discredit someone..."

Ben's motive for revealing the code is another issue entirely. I'm with Baker in that the fact remains whether or not Ben has alterer motives.


Slot Zero:
"How else are we going to learn if not from our mistakes?"

I don't have to murder someone to know it's wrong. Obviously cheating isn't in the same league as a capital crime, but surely someone who deliberately cheats by modifying code used on his own server knows it's unethical.


Slot Zero:
"[Ben's] post doesn't change anything."

If the accusations are true, PK's reputation is irreversibly tainted.


toyo

The issue has been "revisted" with the creation of this thread.

My take on this whole thing is simple. You guys are no longer welcome on the Dead Zone forum / Server and you're looking for any way to get back at Painkiller. Even if it means lying and digging up personal conversations.

You still didn't explain why, when you were accepted at Dead Zone, that you didn't exploit Painkiller's alleged cheats. Is cheating OK when it's your friend who is cheating? This certainly doesn't put any of you guys in a good light.

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Slot Zero

I like IEEE's approach. Without going through every event which took place, the reason why I'm no longer there is because I became uncomfortable with "things" that were happening. I did not know how to invoke special impulses and was told later that they were coded for an individual name anyway.

This got ugly after stories were made up about me and told on a message board where I couldn't respond. At that point, I took off my gloves and fought back. If the individual that floated crap about me now calls me a rat bastard, I can live with that.

It appears that you (Slot) want to walk through all the events which unfolded or lead a drawn out discussion. You don't have to visit the link, but I've spent all the time I care to on this issue.


edit: I was removed as admin. Some of the issues which I brought up because I was uncomfortable turned into arguments that ultimately got me tossed.

Point taken.

I'm curious though. Since you are an admin on my server. What if I told you I was using server side cheats? Do you think you have a moral obligation to reveal this information immediately? Or at least strongly voice your opinion and leave? Or would you bask in the glory of admin and keep this for fodder for any future disagreements we might have?

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Slot Zero

Perhaps you didn't read the title of the thread and who posted it.

I'm not the one looking for this, I was dragged into it. For what reason, I have no idea.

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Slot Zero

Sorry ... my mistake.

Slot Zero, I'm going to treat that as a rhetorical question because I feel your trying to make a statement by comparing the lack of action taken by the former admins of DeadZone to what I can ideally say I would do.


This is all a shame because PK has worked hard to make DeadZone unique via custom runes, sounds, textures and maps. I hope people continue to play there and that this controversy doesn't permanently affect the ongoing development at DeadZone.

toyo

You're fully aware of what happened at Dead Zone, You're also fully aware of my feelings towards Painkiller, Since he banned/removed me for no reason what so ever, I made a point of staying OUT of the argument between Diazoild and himself, as they were both my friends at the time. As for the code and not mentioning it until now, I was not aware of it until Painkiller used it in a game against me very late on, which is when I questioned him about it and began looking for this code. Do any of you remember his CLQ Cheat? I'm sure Chuck does, all you had to do was read the stats for the server to know something was going on. I'm not going to try and defend my reasoning for posting this. As far as I'm concerned, you dragged yourself into this one. You could have taken our ICQ conversation as the end of it, but you didn't.

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--
Ben
http://www.tltq.com

I'm not fully aware, nor do I care what happens at Dead Zone. I do not admin there, nor do I play there. I don't read the Dead Zone message board.



So he beat you and think he is cheating? Just have someone ride him while you play, or play him on the cheat-free server.



An ICQ message telling me that you made this post is hardly a discussion. Besides, should I just ignore it? It's not like it was a general post-- it was directed to me. What I think you fail to realize is how little I care about what goes on anywhere else but here (Rune Central). This message is a personal attack on PK. Hate him for all I care, just leave me out of it. I'm not interested in the dirt you have on other people, unless it involves my server/site. If you need help with coding, feel free to ask, but I don't want to get involved in your feud with Dead Zone or any other player/admin. Sorry.

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Slot Zero

This thread pretty much died down and resolved it, but one thing I didn't want to leave unresponded to ....

> Baker: You 2 should take a hint from IEEE, seriously.

> IEEE: If you mean by me being silent then I'm about to blow it

IEEE, absolutely not! What I meant was that is someone has a habit of being disrespectful towards other people and that is part of who they are and they do it to you, you should cease interaction with that individual.

The person in this thread that Ben/DZ have issues with has a long history of being uncool to other individuals.

So what I found strange is that they keep coming back to this individual for more.

When I suggested getting some hints from IEEE, I was referring to your problematic relationship with another individual that was not treating you well. Eventually you "cut bait" and discontinued interaction with that individual which eventually led to situation being remedied.

I was certainly not suggesting being silent --- that would be the WORST possible choice.