Rune Central

It should be noted that Scoffer is the one person in this discussion who has been banned for botting. It was not some iffy ban, it was as clear as night and day that he was definitely botting. Mercy was extended to him (I surely wouldn't have) and he now doesn't bot anymore (thank goodness). But I don't understand where he gets off accusing everyone else. What an ingrate and blathering idiot you are, Scoffer.

To answer the point that Frenzy makes about sounds, don't forget that demos pick up all sounds. Once a long time ago Baker sent me a demo of Canus Lupus and didn't understand how he knew how a guy was in the squisher on E4M5. I watched the demo and responded that it was easy. He heard the guy pick up 100H, and knew exactly where he was.

I want to add that last weekend I sent some demos of a guy who I thought was cheating to Slot Zero. Slot took the time to thoughtfully watch them and discuss them with me. While we did agree that there was reason for suspicion, there wasn't enough evidence to say that the guy was definitely cheating. Will I be looking out for him in the future? Sure. I'll keep my mouth shut and record demos.

Do I believe that Slot is a fair admin? Most definitely. And through my own experience I understand that it is far wiser to wait until there is conclusive evidence before enforcing a ban. I'm sure that if there is any further evidence I can gather and submit, Slot will consider it thoughtfully and fairly.

When I was an admin, without a doubt the biggest mistake I made was banning people too quickly based of inconclusive evidence. Scoffer's ban, though, was not in that category.

Early this morning we had a discussion about botting on the server. The player who uses the name MarkVIII or something (some said that this person is IHH from Widomaker??) was complaining about myself, Grasshopper_TU, and fr0z3n br41n$ were not using aimbots but rather using "toggled aim assists" and that such a thing cannot be demoed because it's toggled. Several were trying to explain that you can still tell on a demo when someone is using a toggled bot but Mark wouldn't budge with his opinion. fr0z3n even told him to record a demo if he thought we were cheating and he refused.

I don't get why people would claim others cheat and then refuse to try and provide evidence for their claims.

Also apparantly these people who always whine about cheaters have coined a new term to describe people like "sole, toyo, and others" (as Mark said on the server today).... we are now "UNTOUCHABLES"

YAY!!

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aka -sole-
Quake 1 Resurrection - QuakeOne.com

I agree that people who throw the accusations around give the game and servers a bad name, thus running off potential new players. It's bad for the game and if they really cared about the welfare of quake they would listen to some of the advise offered in this thread.

Seems the 3 biggest false cheat name callers has been IHH, Scoffer and URDEAD. First of all, I've seen 2 of the 3 mentioned above cheat with no doubt what so ever. Second of all, How do I know that their claims are false most of the time? Because, many of the times they were calling me a cheat and I've never cheated.

I'd like to see a more enforcement in the area of stopping the false accusations by 24 hour bans, warnings or something. Maybe some people's IP's should just not allowed to communicate on the servers. Whatever it takes.
There are some pretty good methods of detecting cheats out there including demo'ing and sending them to admins/operators. If that's not good enough for you then BE SILENT. It's sort of like registration to vote. If you don't register, than your opinions don't really matter.

I will no longer acknowledge ignorance on the servers with nothing more than a "send alledged cheat demos to slotzero@runequake.com" repsonse.

Bubye.

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Latest Quake Video: Beatdown Alley III

This "magical cheat" -- which as far as I know doesn't even exist -- is the wonderful cheat for the bot accuser ... it exists and "you are using it", but it can never be disproved.

As far as I know, this is a 100% make believe cheat.

All you have to do to disproved it is type ping +100 in the console and then ping +0 to substantially prove you are using ProQuake or Qrack or JoeQuake.

hey, that could be a clan, made only for the good players that have been accused of botting...

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There's a new guy on Shmack that The FoQ(Grasshoppa) thought was cheating. He goes by NoTalentAssclwn among others. I dunno if he bots or not. He's extremely fast at switching weapons and can acquire target and fire multiple times sometimes faster than I can follow visually when riding him.

Does that mean he's a bot? Not necessarily. It could mean that

1.) My old PC isn't refreshing the screen fast enough for me to be able to follow the action clearly.

2.) His brain has built synapses over the years to accomodate his Quake playing and that is well within normal limits for his visual range.

3.) It could be a combination of both 1 and 2.

4.) He could be cheating.

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Here is Toyo_MR2, lying broken at my feet.

Could also mean he has +sattack binds. I use them all the time.

+sattack2 fires a single shot from peashooter
+sattack8 fires a single shot from lightning gun

I can keep my main weapon on RL, and if I have these 2 binds, then by pressing the keys I just let off a single shot, keeping my main weapon on RL.

That particular cheating bot asshole uses the following weapon binds:

bind ctrl "impulse 7"
bind alt "impulse 12"
bind space "impulse 10"

This is of course in addition to all the bot cheat autoaim toggle binds.

As far as what Fuzznut said, I'm pretty sure it's #3 without the #1 part. I don't know how to detect synaptic mods.

When I was 56k I thought every lpb was an auto-aim/bot (except the ones I could beat). Now that I have cable for the last few months I realized what a huge difference ping makes. I had a ping of about 300 with 56k, now it's around 100. My frag rate has doubled. People call me a bot now. Usually if you "think" someone is a bot, they aren't. In most cases it is so obvious that someone is botting that there is nothing to debate. If there is even the slightest chance that someone may be legit, they usually are. Even now with 100 ping, if I play someone with a ping of less than 100 who is good, they usually win.
You have to just settle into your camp-space if you can't keep up, it's ok, nothing to be ashamed of. Quake needs whiney campers like myself to egg the others on. How about instead of worrying about who is or who isn't using a bot, you hone your camping skills and try to throw a wrench into our well oiled machines. GO ON I DARE YOU

Sincerely,

Ole' Hog Bowel

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I'm just a simple caveman...your world frightens and confuses me.

I guess I will chime in on this. BTW, good to see everyone!

I never have a problem spotting a bot. You guys know that I have never called anybody here a bot unless it was in good fun. I truly believe that Surfer Girl does it for good fun too. When I see Surfer Girl I usually run...Don't really care to frag the poor girl for some reason. Besides, I'm usually more worried about knocking the top player out.

Funny thing is, I have never recorded a demo and sent it into Slot. I have reported at least a dozen bots to him and he knows that I don't make accusations of botting lightly. A dozen is not really that many considering that I have been playing since 1996. He has banned everyone of them. How many have I reported this year? I think one...

I have a different procedure that I use when discovering a bot. I first tell the player that they can do better without the bot. I encourage them to lose the bot several times and eventually threaten to turn them in. Then I encourage everybody online to do a filibuster game and ask everybody to make him their primary targets. I have even teamed up with other great players and soley focused on the bot users (this is incredibly fun, especially if you know the spawn order). I am 50% successful and running a bot user out of the game because their general knowledge of runes and Quake game play sucks as bad as their real life aim. If they still persist in playing, then I write their IP down and send Slot a message about my discovery.

Really my intentions are not to lose another player in quake, but to let them know that they still can't beat a skilled player with their bot because their bot won't shoot until it has a line of sight on another player. Whereas skilled players pitch grenades around corners and will shoot into slime/water without actually seeing the player. Bots don't!

I am one of the few who will stop playing my game to try and help the pitful sole out. Most newbies are simply frustrated and just want to win one game...I can sympathize and this is why I try to help them. Scoffer lied in his earlier post. He said that nobody ever stops to help him. I have stopped many times and told him about the +sattacks that can be used, but he refuses to even try them out. I am always pointing people to Quake guides and rune quides to try and help them out.

The thing is, most don't listen because they want to kick ass after only playing the game for a few months against decade old players (not going to happen). It took me 3 years before I was called a bot for the first time. Now it is everytime I play! (I'm sure many of you can concur...I have seen them call everyone here a bot as well.) I usually don't say anything until they call me one. <grin> Let's see, there is Toyo Bot, Slot Bot, Cherrie bot, Frenzy bot, and Sole bot. and many many more.

I said all of the above, just to point out that we should focus on giving these players a chance to change. They may be players that are just curious and wanted to see how a bot functions. Thing is, if they use a bot long enough, they will learn that you can't play very good with one of the darn things (especially on a server with grapplers enabled). So, record your demos yes, but let them know that they are in violation of server policy and that you can provide them resources of how to improve their skills without their bot. Let them know that we understand that they are new and we want them to come back, but they need to lose the bot. Let them know that you have their IP address and finally a recorded demo, but you don't really want to turn it into the admin because they are so new. Let them know that you have been where they are at before and there are plenty of ways to improve their skills. Let them know that they are cheating and once banned, you are on a list that may be active for a very long time. Let them know that there are not very many populated Quake servers left and this may be the last day that they play online with this many people again. Bottom line...I usually exhaust every reason why they shouldn't be doing this and that my last step is to hand it over to Slot.

That's my two cents in the matter.



Cc

Back 3 years ago, I offered to help Scoffer at TLTQ.com learn how to become a better player.

The Thread: Training Scoffer 101

Back in 2003, we exchanged private messages at TLTQ, I posted this information here for him, but he never showed.

Slot Zero wall hacks. Always has. Steve is a camper. The rest of you are OK.

Urdead never falsely accused anyone. Even today, in other games, I am ddead-on with the cheaters. I even had to ban my own clan-mate because I caught him cheating. He had a wallhack, I noticed immediately and it was confirmed when looking at the PunkBuster log. I was riding him during a dead period and saw him shoot at a wall, at a player I knew was on the other side of the wall. I was wondering how he knew where this player was with teh wall and all and why he was shooting at him as if that wall didn't exist. Bingo! Got PB screenshots and saw hacks galore. Even PunkBuster doesn't stop them all. You people who aren't attuned to the game have no clue.

I'd paste a screen shot of that puppy if only slot had the capabilities.

Thanks for the compliment!

_________________
aka -sole-
Quake 1 Resurrection - QuakeOne.com

I generally agree with most of what was said in this thread.
Dole made an excellent broken down guideline about the whole theory.

I have been reading the old forum, and I saw it was peppered with URDEAD's personal crusades against cheaters.

However URDEAD, you were wrong in some instances (at least I think).
You have to understand the ingredients of a good player (I will go into this more if you want, but not in this post).

Some people are just better. We may all have the same knowledge, but some people just can execute it better and faster (being moving, shooting, predicting or quicker reflexes). A prime example of this is Tical.

And also what I found with me is that after playing for so long, I tend to know where the player is and have a knack for his location (other then following sound cues). So if I have a few rocks, I will always fire. And most of the time I kill him (like 70%). Coincidence? I think not. Also psychology plays a part too, if you know your enemy is hurt, you might guess where he could be hiding (a dark corner or behind a box) - or refueling (stocking up on ammo/armor/health) and you fire a rocket there too to finish them off. Also (I) for one tend to (always) fire around corners and in the middle of a room, because players tend to go back and forth between those places.

A lot of things changed from 2002, but back then I was quite a newbie. I wonder if me and URDEAD would play now, will he call me a cheater (if) I beat him.

It's a shame you do not play now anymore, to see how I evolved and even some other players. Believe it or not, who you may call newbs, some of them got very good. lol.

I also do not think Angel cheats, I have fought him one on one a while back, and although the killed me most of the time (and won in dm), I also nailed him plenty. I found that younger players have very good reflexes and reaction time. And if they have skill and strategy too, they make a very tough opponent.

I have not researched cheats nor went into so much depth as URDEAD. He probably has much more experience then me in that department. I am personally not interested in cheats of any kind, nor ever have been. It is a much greater reward to win a fight clean.

However, I have been taking advantage of current technology to aid my play and make me better. A fast USB kb, a high-rez optical mouse, and a good computer. I went through all the Quake Console commands and added everything that I thought would benefit me (and make the game-play easier and more pleasant), I inserted those things into my config. (This would go in the "Ingredients of a Good Player" post - If I ever do it). If you guys want me to make that post, I will.

Now Scoffer, we do not cheat. It is not our fault if we are better then you and you get beat badly in the game. I have withstanded your "BOT" binds and name calling long enough (Parabot) that you threw at me. Enough is enough, I think you should grow up and stop this non-sense and take a good look at yourself. You are not making the game pleasant by being a constant annoyance with the chat spam of bot accusations. (In fact I agree with a previous poster here that said there should be a penalty or punishment for this sort of thing.) It disrupts the game and it's severly annoying, not to say stupid.

Like Dole said, record your demos, don't say nothing and send them to Slot, if you think someone is cheating. Nuff said.

And Scoffer (I hope you're reading this), if you will never take the time out to learn and improve, you will never get better, bottom line. You have all the resources at QuakeOne.com and QuakeTerminus (guides, configs, clients) to get better. You have no excuse not to take advantage of it all, plus Baker (the nicest guy ever) has even offered himself to help you.

This goes to all newbs. You will never have a chance against a 10 year old veteran (let's say) if you don't arm yourself with knowledge and the proper way to play. Like everything else, you have to invest in something (time and patience), to get something (skill and knowledge) in return.

Cherry is not cheating nor uses the same cheats as Toyo does. That statement in itself is the pinnacle of stupidity that only a clueless newb would say. They are both good clean players with a vast playing experience under their belts.

Cherry is not better then Toyo, she sometimes gets lucky and maybe surpasses him in a game or two. Or maybe Toyo lets her win a few, but that is between them and none of our business how they choose to play.

Also IHH, a previously respected member of the community, suddenly seems to have went south and become a hating, cheating-accusing simp. I pray for him that he gets better.

That's it for now, have a nice day.
Much love,
-Tia.

...if you take quake this seriously you need some Psych help. This is a game
if you can't laugh & play along, GET A XBOX. For Real...give us a BREAK..!!

If i can get you to take time to read my BINDS and not watch me trying to
frag you, Hey i've done my job.

Really, Where was i when they passed out the bullet proof rune??? Only certain people have it. I have hit people with "QUAD" & "BESRKER" (using a RL) and have no effect what so ever. DUH....only to have them turn & Blindly Hit me with a shot-gun and blow me up??? How does "CRAP" like that happen..???? And, How can I Get some??? But, It's always Just The CERTAIN FEW...

No PRO's don't "HELP" newbies...!!! My Close friend REBBECA plays under name "TAHOYA" is a one week NEWBIE and gets "SPAWN KILLED" before she can even get a weapon. Can't walk 50 feet.... Ja Thanx for the HELP...

Where's the HELP when i have 666 to 700 Health with Red Armor, and get killed one shot from THESE SAME CERTAIN FEW....????

Just supposed to think THEY are just ..."BETTER"... bahahahahaha
Give "US" a break...

Don't mistake me knowing where you KAMP "CAT" for a cheat...your as Easy as I AM to find...played you long enough...just faster now.
ENJOY THE GAME GET YOUR MOMMIE TO KISS YER BOO BOO...


Bahahahahahahahaah

you say your not a cheat but you post this:

Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 193

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: Re: i suck

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zol wrote:
just wanted to note how bad i am now at quake.

thanks and good night


In the immortal words of SufrslutDamage:

LEARN TO DOWNLOAD HELP LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!

USE THOSE HACKS!! USE 'EM!!!

HAHAHAAAA!! He cracks me up.
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Here is Toyo_MR2, lying broken at my feet.

you really have to get your game up at shmack, there are very few noobs now, everybody is pretty good nowadays...

Hey Surfer,

Now that you're here, perhaps you can be reasoned with.



I've seen you claim this "quad+beserk" thing several times on shmack, and once you accused me of not getting killed. I don't think you ever hit me directly while having quad/beserk cuz I'm sure I would have died if you did. You must remember that beserk gives you 3x damage, and with quad that would translate to 12x damage, so you can certainly die with 1 shotgun hit with quad+beserk.

Second, lets assume for the moment that you have hit people with quad+beserk and they didn't die. There are reasons this could happen: 1) shield rune, 2) pent. And if you died they could have had vengeance rune and you didn't hit them enough to kill them but enough to kill yourself.

You have, as far as I know, never offered any demos of any of the claims you have ever made of cheaters, and so no-one can really take you seriously. When you play on shmack, just type "record demoname" before playing so that if someone does something you don't like, at least you'll have some evidence to show people.

Now to address your claims of cheaters. You have said many times people can kill you with 1 shot at 700 H or whatever, or that they have a hack that prevents them from dieing... The *ONLY* way a hack like that could possibly work is if the player somehow hacked the shmack quake server and put a modified server in its place which granted them these favors. Quake servers don't trust clients enough to let them keep track of their own health/armor, so there is NO way a client-side hack could do any of these things you claim. Since you have accused many different players of these same hacks, the only explanation is that there is a massive conspiracy of regular shmack players who have all hacked the quake server somehow. This seems pretty unlikely to me, and honestly you're the only player I've seen accuse people of these types of hacks. Therefore its up to you to give some evidence backing up your claims.

The moral of the story is:

1) If you're gonna cry bot, MAKE DEMOS TO BACK IT UP
2) There are no "invincibility hacks" on shmack
3) There are no 1-shot-and-die hacks on shmack

Final note: there are many shmack players better than me, but I have never ever seen a hack play there and have never felt the need to call anyone a bot.

I would like to report a whole slew of bots on the shmack server. For the last couple weeks I have not won every map I played in...sometimes I don't even come in the top 4. The only explaination is that everyone who has won a map that I have played in is a bot. Please go back through your logs and ban every player who has beat me in a full map. Thanks for your understanding.

Sincerely,

Ole' Hog Bowel

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I'm just a simple caveman...your world frightens and confuses me.

If you see a cheater and make a demo, email it to slotzero@runequake.com

remember to use rider-hide command so they don't know your looking.

i've spotted several over the years and sent the demo to slot. he takes care of it the same day, sometimes the same hour.

if your not interested in recording a demo and sending it to slot, then your not really serious about stopping the cheaters. This comment is directed to those who talk shit about cheaters for the hell of it. Hope your reading this Scoffer and surfer girl <cheating video coming soon.

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Latest Quake Video: Beatdown Alley III